Water Fountain?
Question:
> Phil, your info is vry interesting, especially since my 19 yr old has just > been diagnozed with incipient renal > insufficiency. BUN last visit was 48 (up from high 20s) . Creatinine was up > one point, but I don’t know what the actual number was. Could you elucidate > on the relative values, or point me to a reference?
http://maxshouse.com/physiologic_data_for_the_cat2.htm#Feline Biochemistry Normals These values are for my lab and should be used for reference only and not for diagnosis. Your vet’s lab’s values may be different. BUN/Creatinine values vary between labs; values are dependant on the cat, each particular lab’s reference ranges, methods of measurement, and chemistry analyzer. IOW, two labs can yield different results from samples obtained at the same time. Also, creatinine is produced in the muscle – thus well-muscled cats can have higher creatinine values that may underestimate renal function. Similarly, colorimetric systems (e.g., Jaffe) used to measure creatinine can artefactually elevate creatinine values because both creatinine and non-creatinine chromogens (e.g., vitamin C, glucose, certain amino acids) can react with the reagent which can also underestimate renal function. Phil.
Response:
My Abyssinian, Jerry, loves to drink water, but only out of the bathroom basin or the bath tub! I tried one of those water fountains. He drank out of it once and then decided to ignore it. Fortunately, the pet shop refunded my money. I don’t think you’re going to know if Pearly is going to like the fountain until she’s confronted with it. With Jerry, I think the coolness of the freshly-drawn water was a factor. Rob
Response:
>I just got a Petmate Fresh Flow.
How easy is it to clean? I find the nooks and crannies of the Drinkwell to be a challenge when I want to clean it. (I’ve also left them feedback saying so… hopefully someone will come up with an easier version!) However, when I looked at the Petmate, the small sizes of some of the parts made it look like cleaning that one was going to be even more trouble. Got any feedback on this? Rebecca
Response:
>> I just got a Petmate Fresh Flow. > How easy is it to clean? I find the nooks and crannies of the > Drinkwell to be a challenge when I want to clean it. (I’ve also left > them feedback saying so… hopefully someone will come up with an > easier version!) However, when I looked at the Petmate, the small > sizes of some of the parts made it look like cleaning that one was > going to be even more trouble. Got any feedback on this? > Rebecca
I haven’t had to clean it yet of course, but it’s all smooth and there aren’t many, if any, nooks or crannies to get into. Seems really "ergonomic" in that way. Karen
Response:
> Stopped by the vet Friday, and we MAY have a problem. Pearly’s blood tests > came back, and her BUN reading was at 40, with 36 supposed to be the upper > limit. Kidney failure may or may not be starting.
<snip> Therefore > it was suggested that I buy this special canned food, KD Feline Can
<snip> What was her creatinine concentration? Did your vet perform a urinalysis along with the CBC and chem screen to determine whether or not her azotemia is pre-renal or primary renal? Urine specific gravity (USG) with a serum protein level offers a more accurate assessment of renal function than either test alone. Pre-renal azotemia is often reversible. If Pearly is in early-stage renal failure, the protein content of k/d is too low for the stage of her disease and may result in protein deficiency and malnutrition. Unnecessary and excessive restriction of dietary protein in cats has been associated with several inherent dangers. Protein deficiency results in impaired immunological response and resistance to infection, reduced hemoglobin production and anemia, decreased plasma protein levels, and muscle wasting. Restricted protein intake is also associated with a reduction in the GFR which may actually exacerbate clinical signs of uremia. Most veterinary nephrologists recommend that dietary protein reduction be initiated when the cat’s BUN concentration reaches 60 mg/dl. The cat should be fed the maximum amount of high-biologic-value protein while maintaining a BUN of 60 mg/dl or less. She’s has a long way to go before she’s ready for k/d. Speak to your vet about g/d or even a low-phosphorus commercial diet. If he balks or squawks get a second opinion. Protein malnutrition will hasten her demise quicker than CRF. Good luck. Phil.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Stopped by the vet Friday, and we MAY have a problem. Pearly’s blood tests >came back, and her BUN reading was at 40, with 36 supposed to be the upper >limit. Kidney failure may or may not be starting. The vet and I talked over >what might be done, considering that Pearly also needs dental treatment next >Monday. >I was given the estimate for the dental treatment, $353.68 which is really >stretching my budget. Right now I am living off my income tax refund. I see >one >credit card adjustment agency Monday, and the law firm of Price & Associates >Tuesday to discuss bankruptcy. And I still have to find a new place to live in >soon. Obviously, if I file bankruptcy I will never be allowed a home loan. If >I >don’t, I cannot afford a home loan. >Back to Pearly and her teeth and kidney problems. Although dry food would be >better for her teeth, right now we need to get more fluid into her. Therefore >it was suggested that I buy this special canned food, KD Feline Can., at $2.38 >per 5 ounce can. It was suggested I feed her one third of the can in the >morning and one third of the can in the evening, the proper amount for a 5-1/2 >pound cat. (And the vet said that Pearly seemed to be at her correct weight.) >. >And keep plenty of fresh water available at all times. >And now a question. I have heard that sometimes cats can be encouraged to >drink >more water with those fountain type drinking dishes. Can anybody give me >feedback on this? >Anyhow, I take Pearly in to the vet this Monday at 8 AM, and plan to pick her >up at 4 PM. At noon I see my first counselor on the credit card debt. Things >are gettingS(interesting. >All E-mail to this screen name is blocked to thwart spammers. Reply to >(310) 835-9202 >"Behold, I am a dry tree." > I just got a Petmate Fresh Flow. Sugar likes it OK, Grant still things It Is > A Wierd New THing but I know he will come around. It’s very quiet and less > expensive. petfooddirect.com has them for ten dollars off, and they send out > coupons for 20 and 30 percent off a lot. That’s how I got my mom one for > less than what I paid at the store (even with shipping). Lots of people do > claim their cats drink from it more. I suggest leaving bowls of water all > over the place. I’ve noticed, that if the cats SEE water, they drink it. > Otherwise they kind of wait until they run across the one bowl. If Pearly > likes drinking from faucets, she’s a shoe in to like the fountain bowl. Just > depends. I’d try bowls all over right now, and put the money towards the > dental. A well maintained mouth goes a LONG way to overall health. Also, > mouth problems can affect those levels too so they may come down after the > dental work is done. Have you asked about a payment plan? > Karen
I was thinking of getting a petmate fountain for my male cat. But I have a question – how noisy is the motor? My cat gets spooked easy by anything that hums or buzzes too loudly. I am concerned that he wouldn’t use it because of the noise.
Response:
Phil, your info is vry interesting, especially since my 19 yr old has just been diagnozed with incipient renal insufficiency. BUN last visit was 48 (up from high 20s) . Creatinine was up one point, but I don’t know what the actual number was. Could you elucidate on the relative values, or point me to a reference? Thanks. ED. And Harry, don’t panic. The teeth being bad can also cause this increase, I believe.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Stopped by the vet Friday, and we MAY have a problem. Pearly’s blood > tests > came back, and her BUN reading was at 40, with 36 supposed to be the upper > limit. Kidney failure may or may not be starting. > <snip> > Therefore > it was suggested that I buy this special canned food, KD Feline Can > <snip> > What was her creatinine concentration? Did your vet perform a urinalysis > along with the CBC and chem screen to determine whether or not her azotemia > is pre-renal or primary renal? Urine specific gravity (USG) with a serum > protein level offers a more accurate assessment of renal function than > either test alone. Pre-renal azotemia is often reversible. > If Pearly is in early-stage renal failure, the protein content of k/d is too > low for the stage of her disease and may result in protein deficiency and > malnutrition. Unnecessary and excessive restriction of dietary protein in > cats has been associated with several inherent dangers. Protein deficiency > results in impaired immunological response and resistance to infection, > reduced hemoglobin production and anemia, decreased plasma protein levels, > and muscle wasting. Restricted protein intake is also associated with a > reduction in the GFR which may actually exacerbate clinical signs of uremia. > Most veterinary nephrologists recommend that dietary protein reduction be > initiated when the cat’s BUN concentration reaches 60 mg/dl. The cat should > be fed the maximum amount of high-biologic-value protein while maintaining a > BUN of 60 mg/dl or less. She’s has a long way to go before she’s ready for > k/d. Speak to your vet about g/d or even a low-phosphorus commercial diet. > If he balks or squawks get a second opinion. Protein malnutrition will > hasten her demise quicker than CRF. > Good luck. > Phil.
Response:
> I was thinking of getting a petmate fountain for my male cat. But I have > a question – how noisy is the motor? My cat gets spooked easy by > anything that hums or buzzes too loudly. I am concerned that he wouldn’t > use it because of the noise.
The motor is pretty quiet unless you let the water level get too low. Ours was really loud when we first installed it, but after we learned to fill up the bowl in addition to the reservoir with water, it quieted right down. After that, it’s pretty much good to go until the reservoir thing gets almost empty, at which point it starts grinding a bit. (Which is good, because that’s a good warning that it needs water before you forget and let the motor burn out.) My cats like their FreshFlow. Not significantly better than they like the regular bowl of water upstairs, but it’s easier for me not to have to worry about filling that downstairs bowl all the time. Pamela
Response:
I bought a $50 water fountain years ago for my last cat (whose kidneys gave out at the age of 14) but she wouldn’t go near it. I have a less expensive fountain for my cat now and he loves it. He drinks quite a bit from it–but ignores his water bowl. You might add a little (filtered water) to his wet food also.
Response:
>And now a question. I have heard that sometimes cats can be encouraged to drink >more water with those fountain type drinking dishes. Can anybody give me >feedback on this?
Not a feedback, just a suggestion. If you have money problems, save on the fountain: just get an aquarium pump, the smallest model, and place it in a salad bowl. Uglier, but same service. it’s also safe, it’s basically impossible to get electricity from touching it…
Response:
> Just remembered – I think a Royal Canin food (senior??) was also recommended > for being a good alternative food for renal failure. > Cathy
It is good and falls about the same as k/d, however, it is only in dry. You still want to have a wet food on hand. Sensible Choice Chicken and Rice seems to rate well. Anyone have that Kat Karma address handy? Karen
Response:
I think Karen’s right; save the money you’d spend on a fountain & put it towards her dental work, having plenty of water available for her instead. Cathy — "Staccato signals of constant information…" ("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Stopped by the vet Friday, and we MAY have a problem. Pearly’s blood tests > came back, and her BUN reading was at 40, with 36 supposed to be the upper > limit. Kidney failure may or may not be starting. The vet and I talked over > what might be done, considering that Pearly also needs dental treatment next > Monday. > I was given the estimate for the dental treatment, $353.68 which is really > stretching my budget. Right now I am living off my income tax refund. I see > one > credit card adjustment agency Monday, and the law firm of Price & Associates > Tuesday to discuss bankruptcy. And I still have to find a new place to live in > soon. Obviously, if I file bankruptcy I will never be allowed a home loan. If > I > don’t, I cannot afford a home loan. > Back to Pearly and her teeth and kidney problems. Although dry food would be > better for her teeth, right now we need to get more fluid into her. Therefore > it was suggested that I buy this special canned food, KD Feline Can., at $2.38 > per 5 ounce can. It was suggested I feed her one third of the can in the > morning and one third of the can in the evening, the proper amount for a 5-1/2 > pound cat. (And the vet said that Pearly seemed to be at her correct weight.) > . > And keep plenty of fresh water available at all times. > And now a question. I have heard that sometimes cats can be encouraged to > drink > more water with those fountain type drinking dishes. Can anybody give me > feedback on this? > Anyhow, I take Pearly in to the vet this Monday at 8 AM, and plan to pick her > up at 4 PM. At noon I see my first counselor on the credit card debt. Things > are gettingSinteresting. > All E-mail to this screen name is blocked to thwart spammers. Reply to > (310) 835-9202 > "Behold, I am a dry tree." > I just got a Petmate Fresh Flow. Sugar likes it OK, Grant still things It Is > A Wierd New THing but I know he will come around. It’s very quiet and less > expensive. petfooddirect.com has them for ten dollars off, and they send out > coupons for 20 and 30 percent off a lot. That’s how I got my mom one for > less than what I paid at the store (even with shipping). Lots of people do > claim their cats drink from it more. I suggest leaving bowls of water all > over the place. I’ve noticed, that if the cats SEE water, they drink it. > Otherwise they kind of wait until they run across the one bowl. If Pearly > likes drinking from faucets, she’s a shoe in to like the fountain bowl. Just > depends. I’d try bowls all over right now, and put the money towards the > dental. A well maintained mouth goes a LONG way to overall health. Also, > mouth problems can affect those levels too so they may come down after the > dental work is done. Have you asked about a payment plan? > Karen
Response:
Just remembered – I think a Royal Canin food (senior??) was also recommended for being a good alternative food for renal failure. Cathy — "Staccato signals of constant information…" ("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Harry – here’s a chronic renal failure website that was written by a person > who learned a *lot* about CRF when her second cat was diagnosed with it. > Has a lot of information – most of which you don’t yet need, but which may > come in useful down the road: http://www.felinecrf.org/ . Plus, what you’re > aware of ahead of time, will be helpful if/when the various symptoms do show > up; you’ll be ahead of the game. > There was a discussion about other good foods for cats in chronic renal > failure – or in Pearly’s case, possible CRF – fairly recently, since many > cats don’t like k/d. (Otoh, perhaps Pearly will like it fine, who knows?) > I *think*- without doing a Google search – that Hill’s Science Diet > Prescription g/d was one mentioned. I also think one of Royal Canin’s > varieties was mentioned. Maybe someone else remembers?? > I don’t know about the fountain, since I don’t have one. Does Pearly appear > to have a fascination with drinking running water – at the faucets, for > example? Some cats *love* to drink from taps, & in their case I bet it > would encourage them to drink more water. For other cats who show no > interest in that sort of thing, I don’t know if a fountain would encourage > them to drink more water or not. > Cathy > — > "Staccato signals of constant information…" > ("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon > Stopped by the vet Friday, and we MAY have a problem. Pearly’s blood > tests > came back, and her BUN reading was at 40, with 36 supposed to be the upper > limit. Kidney failure may or may not be starting. The vet and I talked > over > what might be done, considering that Pearly also needs dental treatment > next > Monday. > I was given the estimate for the dental treatment, $353.68 which is really > stretching my budget. Right now I am living off my income tax refund. I > see one > credit card adjustment agency Monday, and the law firm of Price & > Associates > Tuesday to discuss bankruptcy. And I still have to find a new place to > live in > soon. Obviously, if I file bankruptcy I will never be allowed a home loan. > If I > don’t, I cannot afford a home loan. > Back to Pearly and her teeth and kidney problems. Although dry food would > be > better for her teeth, right now we need to get more fluid into her. > Therefore > it was suggested that I buy this special canned food, KD Feline Can., at > $2.38 > per 5 ounce can. It was suggested I feed her one third of the can in the > morning and one third of the can in the evening, the proper amount for a > 5-1/2 > pound cat. (And the vet said that Pearly seemed to be at her correct > weight.) . > And keep plenty of fresh water available at all times. > And now a question. I have heard that sometimes cats can be encouraged to > drink > more water with those fountain type drinking dishes. Can anybody give me > feedback on this? > Anyhow, I take Pearly in to the vet this Monday at 8 AM, and plan to pick > her > up at 4 PM. At noon I see my first counselor on the credit card debt. > Things > are getting.interesting. > All E-mail to this screen name is blocked to thwart spammers. Reply to > (310) 835-9202 > "Behold, I am a dry tree."
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Stopped by the vet Friday, and we MAY have a problem. Pearly’s blood tests > came back, and her BUN reading was at 40, with 36 supposed to be the upper > limit. Kidney failure may or may not be starting. The vet and I talked over > what might be done, considering that Pearly also needs dental treatment next > Monday. > I was given the estimate for the dental treatment, $353.68 which is really > stretching my budget. Right now I am living off my income tax refund. I see > one > credit card adjustment agency Monday, and the law firm of Price & Associates > Tuesday to discuss bankruptcy. And I still have to find a new place to live in > soon. Obviously, if I file bankruptcy I will never be allowed a home loan. If > I > don’t, I cannot afford a home loan. > Back to Pearly and her teeth and kidney problems. Although dry food would be > better for her teeth, right now we need to get more fluid into her. Therefore > it was suggested that I buy this special canned food, KD Feline Can., at $2.38 > per 5 ounce can. It was suggested I feed her one third of the can in the > morning and one third of the can in the evening, the proper amount for a 5-1/2 > pound cat. (And the vet said that Pearly seemed to be at her correct weight.) > . > And keep plenty of fresh water available at all times. > And now a question. I have heard that sometimes cats can be encouraged to > drink > more water with those fountain type drinking dishes. Can anybody give me > feedback on this? > Anyhow, I take Pearly in to the vet this Monday at 8 AM, and plan to pick her > up at 4 PM. At noon I see my first counselor on the credit card debt. Things > are getting
Related Posts