Discipline
Question:
> I’m a new cat owner, and I was wondering how you can discipline a cat for > something they did hours before you find out about it. > I came home from work today to find poop in my bed. I looked at her and > she seemed to know she had done something bad, because she started slinking > away very slowly. I didn’t yell or anything…just picked her up, took her > to the poop, and rubbed her face in it just a bit…none got on her > though, because it was so dried out. > I know a spray water bottle is good for discipline, but does it still work > hours after the fact? > Amanda
Dear Amanda (and group); As a new cat owner you are to be excused for committing the most common error in dealing with cats… which is thinking that cats are small difficult dogs and can be treated accordingly. To answer your first question first; you can not AND SHOULD NOT discipline a cat! You can correct a cats’ behavior and modify it to something more appropriate to living with humans, but cat discipline is an oxymoron, (not unlike military intelligence). Specifically, cats are not pack animals and therefore do not respond to "leader" discipling the way that a dog would do. To eliminate, (no pun intended) the problem you must outthink the cat, (not an easy chore for a human… but do-able under specific circumstances). Your specific problem is with unacceptable, (from a human point of view) housesoiling. The first thing you need to figure out is WHY the cat chose to defecate on your bed. Cats, by nature try to hide their feces except in very specific circumstances. Usually publicly displayed feces is a signal to other animals :"This is my space". The trigger for this could be another cat in the house… a new baby, a new live-in human (male or female) or, (since this is springtime and many of your kittys’ feral cousins are more active now), it could be that your cat saw a strange cat outside the window and felt the need to mark the territory. It is up to you as the species with superior intelligence (snort!) to figure out what the reason was for territory marking and work with changing the trigger for the behavior. The second possibility could be that your cat is trying to tell you that she is not happy with the litter pan. This could also have many causes; 1) she doesn’t like the litter you use; 2) she thinks you need to change/sanitize the box more frequently; 3) she has a physical problem that causes her pain when she deficates and associates the box with the pain (it doesn’t have to make sense to a human… only to a cat). Whatever the reason, it is up to you as the human to figure out the answer and take action. As far as use of water spray bottles, (or other aversive deterrents); used incorrectly, all you will teach the cat is to be afraid of you… not the best way to form a close bond with your cat. As far as "rubbing her nose in it", was that the way that your mom toilet trained you when you made a mistake? I’ll bet not. The point is to "catch" your cat doing "proper" behavior and praise effusively! How do you do that? Set up a situation where you can’t help but "catch" her doing good. Make sure that you sit with her while she eats, and then deposit her in the box. When she "makes" high praise and possibly a kitty treat. Finally, animals have no long-term rententive memory nor do they feel guilt over inappropriate behaviors, since they are behaving as they were designed to… as animals. It is up to us as humans to gently and kindly modify their behaviors so that they can successfully cooexist with us in our environment. I hope this clarifies things a bit. For further information on cat care, take a look at my website located at http://www.cats-by-pat.com … we also have a video out "COMMON SENSE CAT CARE VOLUME #1 – Grooming & Bathing Your Cat" $29.95 + $4.95 s/h. Call 1-773-878-1988 to order (VISA & Master Card Accepted). Regards, Pat Kansoer – Holistci Companion Feline Consultant http://www.cats-by-pat.com
Response:
I’m a new cat owner, and I was wondering how you can discipline a cat for something they did hours before you find out about it. I came home from work today to find poop in my bed. I looked at her and she seemed to know she had done something bad, because she started slinking away very slowly. I didn’t yell or anything…just picked her up, took her to the poop, and rubbed her face in it just a bit…none got on her though, because it was so dried out. I know a spray water bottle is good for discipline, but does it still work hours after the fact? Amanda
Response:
:I know a spray water bottle is good for discipline, but does it still :work hours after the fact? no. it just doesn’t work, not even *minutes* after. it’s not so much that the cat has forgotten or is unable to figure out why he is being punished… it’s just the rules by which they live. punishment, to the cat, is just cruelty. as i understand it, dogs haven’t fully worked out this way of dealing with humans. — rob
Response:
> I came home from work today to find poop in my bed. > Amanda
Be thankful that it was not urine!!! Robyn ;-) — /*/ . =*= . . ^ .
Response:
: I’m a new cat owner, and I was wondering how you can discipline a cat for : something they did hours before you find out about it. Very carefully… : I came home from work today to find poop in my bed. I looked at her and : she seemed to know she had done something bad, because she started slinking : away very slowly. I didn’t yell or anything…just picked her up, took her : to the poop, and rubbed her face in it just a bit…none got on her : though, because it was so dried out. Rubbing her face in it will be counterproductive. She will see you as unpredictable and cruel. If she poops in your bed again, bring her with you as you scoop the poop and place it in the litterbox. She seemed to know it was her poop. (Unless she was slinking away out of fear, because of past punishments? She might also have pooped there for a reason.) If she sees you put the poo in the box, she’ll figure out what you are doing. : I know a spray water bottle is good for discipline, but does it still work : hours after the fact? It is very difficult to make a cat associate its past behavior with any punishment. Even a minute later, they might not associate a water squirt with their behavior, and again, perceive you as cruel and unpredictable. (And they _do_ know who controls the squirt bottle.) I realize this is probably of little help to you, but I know of no "aversion" that you can use on a cat other than those done immediately after inappropriate behavior. But please don’t rub your cat’s face in her own feces. Jen
Response:
> I’m a new cat owner, and I was wondering how you can discipline a cat for > something they did hours before you find out about it. > I came home from work today to find poop in my bed. I looked at her and > she seemed to know she had done something bad, because she started slinking > away very slowly. I didn’t yell or anything…just picked her up, took her > to the poop, and rubbed her face in it just a bit…none got on her > though, because it was so dried out.
Punishment is not a good approach with cats. It’s unlikely to result in the desired modification of behavior, and it *is* likely to result in fear or mistrust. In this case, your best approach would have been to have removed the faeces from the bed in view of your cat, and taken them to the litterbox. Then — the hard part — you need to try and figure out *why* your cat defecated in your bed. Common causes of inappropriate defecation or urination are stress caused by abrupt changes in routine (a new work schedule, feeding at different times), abrupt changes in environment (a new apartment, drastic rearrangement of furniture, new room-mates either feline or human, new carpet, new paint), abrupt changes in diet, fear (do you by any chance have workmen come in while you’re out? or is noisy work being done in the neighborhood?), filth or perceived filth (even if the litterbox is kept reasonably clean, some cats can demand a higher standard), and ill-health (parasitic or microbial infections, or other forms of gastro-intestinal upset, some of which may not produce obvious symptoms). > I know a spray water bottle is good for discipline, but does it still work > hours after the fact?
It won’t work even minutes after the fact, and neither will any other means of punishment. The spray bottle or a loud voice (I just call out "Oy!" or "Hey!" in an angry or aggrieved tone when I catch my cats doing something forbidden) will work *only* while the misbehavior is taking place, and then *only* if the cat understands that it *is* misbehavior. With some things, such as jumping on the dining table, this can be done with sheer persis- tence: cat jumps on table, cat is quietly but firmly removed, repeat ad nauseum until light dawns (actually, I suspect that cats learn this much more quickly than they let on, but will keep testing to see that the rule really does still apply). In other cases, it’s much easier to modify the *environment* in such a way that misbehavior either doesn’t occur, or that what was considered misbehavior is no longer a problem. For in- stance, not leaving unwashed dishes in the sink, or foods on the counter; or putting towels down on the furniture where the cats like to sit, so that the shed fur isn’t a problem. In this case, though, you’re not dealing just with misbehavior. Inappropriate defecation is generally a direct (and smelly) communication that something is very definitely wrong. Stacy Scott
Response:
ROTFLMAO, although my DH probably wouldn’t. hbfb
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > : Hi all! I’m a new cat owner and am not quite sure on how to keep my 5 > : month old kitten off the kitchen counter and table? > I gave up and accepted it years ago. If you don’t want a cat > someplace, make it physically impossible for a cat to reach that > place. Otherwise, your house is his house. Yeah, I know, there are > people out there with perfectly disciplined cats. I don’t want to hear > about it 
> There was a lovely Roz Chast cartoon in the New
Yorker. It just showd > a table with three condiment bottles on it. They were labeled SALT, > PEPPER, and CAT HAIR. > — > Karen Lofstrom
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > CLIP-ON NOSE RINGS ARE HERE!
Response:
Speaking from a present ongoing experience, the heavy packaging tape works like a charm! We used it to break Mickey of scratching furniture, but have pretty much given up on the kitchen counter thing.
Response:
well some people say to keep the counters free of interesting things…I just keep mine so full they can’t get up there for the junk, lol hbfb > Speaking from a present ongoing experience, the heavy
packaging tape works > like a charm! We used it to break Mickey of
scratching furniture, but have – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> pretty much given up on the kitchen counter thing.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi all! I’m a new cat owner and am not quite sure on how to keep my 5 >month old kitten off the kitchen counter and table? I think he’s just >learned that he can jump that high, and seems to be doing it just to >spite me! I have a water gun that I use when I catch him in the act, >but it doesn’t seem to be doing any good. Thanks for the help! > Clear packaging tape, at least six inches, upside down in the > restricted area (I like Scotch brand, the big roll that you can get a > dispenser for, not the smaller roll that comes on a dispenser because > if you rub it with a finger, stuff comes off of it). Two or more > encounters with the tape leaves a lasting impression. Be ready to > help her get the tape off (I’m sure that job varies depending on the > cat/owner). Please use it responsibly. > LShaping.
Use double sided tape and you don’t have to worry about the tape staying stuck to them. Use, glass, wood, cardboard or whatever on top of the table if you don’t want to put the tape right on the table. — Fur Purr >^..^< Before you buy.
Response:
: Hi all! I’m a new cat owner and am not quite sure on how to keep my 5 : month old kitten off the kitchen counter and table? I gave up and accepted it years ago. If you don’t want a cat someplace, make it physically impossible for a cat to reach that place. Otherwise, your house is his house. Yeah, I know, there are people out there with perfectly disciplined cats. I don’t want to hear about it There was a lovely Roz Chast cartoon in the New Yorker. It just showd a table with three condiment bottles on it. They were labeled SALT, PEPPER, and CAT HAIR. — CLIP-ON NOSE RINGS ARE HERE!
Response:
>Hi all! I’m a new cat owner and am not quite sure on how to keep my 5 >month old kitten off the kitchen counter and table? I think he’s just >learned that he can jump that high, and seems to be doing it just to >spite me! I have a water gun that I use when I catch him in the act, >but it doesn’t seem to be doing any good. Thanks for the help!
Clear packaging tape, at least six inches, upside down in the restricted area (I like Scotch brand, the big roll that you can get a dispenser for, not the smaller roll that comes on a dispenser because if you rub it with a finger, stuff comes off of it). Two or more encounters with the tape leaves a lasting impression. Be ready to help her get the tape off (I’m sure that job varies depending on the cat/owner). Please use it responsibly. LShaping.
Response:
Hi, In our experience, the squirt bottle works as long as you’re home. Even after your cat figures out he’s not supposed to be up on the counter and stays off, he’ll probably check it out once in a while. We try to make our countertops a boring as possible for a cat– nothing to eat, no little things to knock onto the floor, nothing sharp, etc. Cinder is three now. I never see her up there but I find kitty footprints on the counter every three or four months or so. Enjoy your kitten. He’s like a curious toddler who has to try everything. Don’t expect him to be perfect. Anne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi all! I’m a new cat owner and am not quite sure on how to keep my 5 > month old kitten off the kitchen counter and table? I think he’s just > learned that he can jump that high, and seems to be doing it just to > spite me! I have a water gun that I use when I catch him in the act, > but it doesn’t seem to be doing any good. Thanks for the help! > Before you buy.
Response:
I feel your pain…I have a one year old cat that does the same thing. I squirt him, and he jumps off the counter, and goes right back up. If anyone has any suggestions…please help. Thanks. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
Response:
sorry, I meant "him"
Response:
Hi all! I’m a new cat owner and am not quite sure on how to keep my 5 month old kitten off the kitchen counter and table? I think he’s just learned that he can jump that high, and seems to be doing it just to spite me! I have a water gun that I use when I catch him in the act, but it doesn’t seem to be doing any good. Thanks for the help! Before you buy.
Response:
> I’m a new cat owner, and I was wondering how you can discipline a cat for > something they did hours before you find out about it. > I came home from work today to find poop in my bed. I looked at her and > she seemed to know she had done something bad, because she started slinking > away very slowly. I didn’t yell or anything…just picked her up, took her > to the poop, and rubbed her face in it just a bit…none got on her > though, because it was so dried out. > I know a spray water bottle is good for discipline, but does it still work > hours after the fact? > Amanda
Dear Amanda (and group); As a new cat owner you are to be excused for committing the most common error in dealing with cats… which is thinking that cats are small difficult dogs and can be treated accordingly. To answer your first question first; you can not AND SHOULD NOT discipline a cat! You can correct a cats’ behavior and modify it to something more appropriate to living with humans, but cat discipline is an oxymoron, (not unlike military intelligence). Specifically, cats are not pack animals and therefore do not respond to "leader" discipling the way that a dog would do. To eliminate, (no pun intended) the problem you must outthink the cat, (not an easy chore for a human… but do-able under specific circumstances). Your specific problem is with unacceptable, (from a human point of view) housesoiling. The first thing you need to figure out is WHY the cat chose to defecate on your bed. Cats, by nature try to hide their feces except in very specific circumstances. Usually publicly displayed feces is a signal to other animals :"This is my space". The trigger for this could be another cat in the house… a new baby, a new live-in human (male or female) or, (since this is springtime and many of your kittys’ feral cousins are more active now), it could be that your cat saw a strange cat outside the window and felt the need to mark the territory. It is up to you as the species with superior intelligence (snort!) to figure out what the reason was for territory marking and work with changing the trigger for the behavior. The second possibility could be that your cat is trying to tell you that she is not happy with the litter pan. This could also have many causes; 1) she doesn’t like the litter you use; 2) she thinks you need to change/sanitize the box more frequently; 3) she has a physical problem that causes her pain when she deficates and associates the box with the pain (it doesn’t have to make sense to a human… only to a cat). Whatever the reason, it is up to you as the human to figure out the answer and take action. As far as use of water spray bottles, (or other aversive deterrents); used incorrectly, all you will teach the cat is to be afraid of you… not the best way to form a close bond with your cat. As far as "rubbing her nose in it", was that the way that your mom toilet trained you when you made a mistake? I’ll bet not. The point is to "catch" your cat doing "proper" behavior and praise effusively! How do you do that? Set up a situation where you can’t help but "catch" her doing good. Make sure that you sit with her while she eats, and then deposit her in the box. When she "makes" high praise and possibly a kitty treat. Finally, animals have no long-term rententive memory nor do they feel guilt over inappropriate behaviors, since they are behaving as they were designed to… as animals. It is up to us as humans to gently and kindly modify their behaviors so that they can successfully cooexist with us in our environment. I hope this clarifies things a bit. For further information on cat care, take a look at my website located at http://www.cats-by-pat.com … we also have a video out "COMMON SENSE CAT CARE VOLUME #1 – Grooming & Bathing Your Cat" $29.95 + $4.95 s/h. Call 1-773-878-1988 to order (VISA & Master Card Accepted). Regards, Pat Kansoer – Holistci Companion Feline Consultant http://www.cats-by-pat.com
Response:
I’m a new cat owner, and I was wondering how you can discipline a cat for something they did hours before you find out about it. I came home from work today to find poop in my bed. I looked at her and she seemed to know she had done something bad, because she started slinking away very slowly. I didn’t yell or anything…just picked her up, took her to the poop, and rubbed her face in it just a bit…none got on her though, because it was so dried out. I know a spray water bottle is good for discipline, but does it still work hours after the fact? Amanda
Response:
:I know a spray water bottle is good for discipline, but does it still :work hours after the fact? no. it just doesn’t work, not even *minutes* after. it’s not so much that the cat has forgotten or is unable to figure out why he is being punished… it’s just the rules by which they live. punishment, to the cat, is just cruelty. as i understand it, dogs haven’t fully worked out this way of dealing with humans. — rob
Response:
> I came home from work today to find poop in my bed. > Amanda
Be thankful that it was not urine!!! Robyn ;-) — /*/ . =*= . . ^ .
Response:
: I’m a new cat owner, and I was wondering how you can discipline a cat for : something they did hours before you find out about it. Very carefully… : I came home from work today to find poop in my bed. I looked at her and : she seemed to know she had done something bad, because she started slinking : away very slowly. I didn’t yell or anything…just picked her up, took her : to the poop, and rubbed her face in it just a bit…none got on her : though, because it was so dried out. Rubbing her face in it will be counterproductive. She will see you as unpredictable and cruel. If she poops in your bed again, bring her with you as you scoop the poop and place it in the litterbox. She seemed to know it was her poop. (Unless she was slinking away out of fear, because of past punishments? She might also have pooped there for a reason.) If she sees you put the poo in the box, she’ll figure out what you are doing. : I know a spray water bottle is good for discipline, but does it still work : hours after the fact? It is very difficult to make a cat associate its past behavior with any punishment. Even a minute later, they might not associate a water squirt with their behavior, and again, perceive you as cruel and unpredictable. (And they _do_ know who controls the squirt bottle.) I realize this is probably of little help to you, but I know of no "aversion" that you can use on a cat other than those done immediately after inappropriate behavior. But please don’t rub your cat’s face in her own feces. Jen
Response:
> I’m a new cat owner, and I was wondering how you can discipline a cat for > something they did hours before you find out about it. > I came home from work today to find poop in my bed. I looked at her and > she seemed to know she had done something bad, because she started slinking > away very slowly. I didn’t yell or anything…just picked her up, took her > to the poop, and rubbed her face in it just a bit…none got on her > though, because it was so dried out.
Punishment is not a good approach with cats. It’s unlikely to result in the desired modification of behavior, and it *is* likely to result in fear or mistrust. In this case, your best approach would have been to have removed the faeces from the bed in view of your cat, and taken them to the litterbox. Then — the hard part — you need to try and figure out *why* your cat defecated in your bed. Common causes of inappropriate defecation or urination are stress caused by abrupt changes in routine (a new work schedule, feeding at different times), abrupt changes in environment (a new apartment, drastic rearrangement of furniture, new room-mates either feline or human, new carpet, new paint), abrupt changes in diet, fear (do you by any chance have workmen come in while you’re out? or is noisy work being done in the neighborhood?), filth or perceived filth (even if the litterbox is kept reasonably clean, some cats can demand a higher standard), and ill-health (parasitic or microbial infections, or other forms of gastro-intestinal upset, some of which may not produce obvious symptoms). > I know a spray water bottle is good for discipline, but does it still work > hours after the fact?
It won’t work even minutes after the fact, and neither will any other means of punishment. The spray bottle or a loud voice (I just call out "Oy!" or "Hey!" in an angry or aggrieved tone when I catch my cats doing something forbidden) will work *only* while the misbehavior is taking place, and then *only* if the cat understands that it *is* misbehavior. With some things, such as jumping on the dining table, this can be done with sheer persis- tence: cat jumps on table, cat is quietly but firmly removed, repeat ad nauseum until light dawns (actually, I suspect that cats learn this much more quickly than they let on, but will keep testing to see that the rule really does still apply). In other cases, it’s much easier to modify the *environment* in such a way that misbehavior either doesn’t occur, or that what was considered misbehavior is no longer a problem. For in- stance, not leaving unwashed dishes in the sink, or foods on the counter; or putting towels down on the furniture where the cats like to sit, so that the shed fur isn’t a problem. In this case, though, you’re not dealing just with misbehavior. Inappropriate defecation is generally a direct (and smelly) communication that something is very definitely wrong. Stacy Scott
Response:
ROTFLMAO, although my DH probably wouldn’t. hbfb
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > : Hi all! I’m a new cat owner and am not quite sure on how to keep my 5 > : month old kitten off the kitchen counter and table? > I gave up and accepted it years ago. If you don’t want a cat > someplace, make it physically impossible for a cat to reach that > place. Otherwise, your house is his house. Yeah, I know, there are > people out there with perfectly disciplined cats. I don’t want to hear > about it > There was a lovely Roz Chast cartoon in the New
Yorker. It just showd > a table with three condiment bottles on it. They were labeled SALT, > PEPPER, and CAT HAIR. > — > Karen Lofstrom
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > CLIP-ON NOSE RINGS ARE HERE!
Response:
Speaking from a present ongoing experience, the heavy packaging tape works like a charm! We used it to break Mickey of scratching furniture, but have pretty much given up on the kitchen counter thing.
Response:
well some people say to keep the counters free of interesting things…I just keep mine so full they can’t get up there for the junk, lol hbfb > Speaking from a present ongoing experience, the heavy
packaging tape works > like a charm! We used it to break Mickey of
scratching furniture, but have – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> pretty much given up on the kitchen counter thing.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi all! I’m a new cat owner and am not quite sure on how to keep my 5 >month old kitten off the kitchen counter and table? I think he’s just >learned that he can jump that high, and seems to be doing it just to >spite me! I have a water gun that I use when I catch him in the act, >but it doesn’t seem to be doing any good. Thanks for the help! > Clear packaging tape, at least six inches, upside down in the > restricted area (I like Scotch brand, the big roll that you can get a > dispenser for, not the smaller roll that comes on a dispenser because > if you rub it with a finger, stuff comes off of it). Two or more > encounters with the tape leaves a lasting impression. Be ready to > help her get the tape off (I’m sure that job varies depending on the > cat/owner). Please use it responsibly. > LShaping.
Use double sided tape and you don’t have to worry about the tape staying stuck to them. Use, glass, wood, cardboard or whatever on top of the table if you don’t want to put the tape right on the table. — Fur Purr >^..^< Before you buy.
Response:
: Hi all! I’m a new cat owner and am not quite sure on how to keep my 5 : month old kitten off the kitchen counter and table? I gave up and accepted it years ago. If you don’t want a cat someplace, make it physically impossible for a cat to reach that place. Otherwise, your house is his house. Yeah, I know, there are people out there with perfectly disciplined cats. I don’t want to hear about it There was a lovely Roz Chast cartoon in the New Yorker. It just showd a table with three condiment bottles on it. They were labeled SALT, PEPPER, and CAT HAIR. — CLIP-ON NOSE RINGS ARE HERE!
Response:
>Hi all! I’m a new cat owner and am not quite sure on how to keep my 5 >month old kitten off the kitchen counter and table? I think he’s just >learned that he can jump that high, and seems to be doing it just to >spite me! I have a water gun that I use when I catch him in the act, >but it doesn’t seem to be doing any good. Thanks for the help!
Clear packaging tape, at least six inches, upside down in the restricted area (I like Scotch brand, the big roll that you can get a dispenser for, not the smaller roll that comes on a dispenser because if you rub it with a finger, stuff comes off of it). Two or more encounters with the tape leaves a lasting impression. Be ready to help her get the tape off (I’m sure that job varies depending on the cat/owner). Please use it responsibly. LShaping.
Response:
Hi, In our experience, the squirt bottle works as long as you’re home. Even after your cat figures out he’s not supposed to be up on the counter and stays off, he’ll probably check it out once in a while. We try to make our countertops a boring as possible for a cat– nothing to eat, no little things to knock onto the floor, nothing sharp, etc. Cinder is three now. I never see her up there but I find kitty footprints on the counter every three or four months or so. Enjoy your kitten. He’s like a curious toddler who has to try everything. Don’t expect him to be perfect. Anne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi all! I’m a new cat owner and am not quite sure on how to keep my 5 > month old kitten off the kitchen counter and table? I think he’s just > learned that he can jump that high, and seems to be doing it just to > spite me! I have a water gun that I use when I catch him in the act, > but it doesn’t seem to be doing any good. Thanks for the help! > Before you buy.
Response:
I feel your pain…I have a one year old cat that does the same thing. I squirt him, and he jumps off the counter, and goes right back up. If anyone has any suggestions…please help. Thanks. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
Response:
sorry, I meant "him"
Response:
Hi all! I’m a new cat owner and am not quite sure on how to keep my 5 month old kitten off the kitchen counter and table? I think he’s just learned that he can jump that high, and seems to be doing it just to spite me! I have a water gun that I use when I catch him in the act, but it doesn’t seem to be doing any good. Thanks for the help! Before you buy.
Response:
> I’m a new cat owner, and I was wondering how you can discipline a cat for > something they did hours before you find out about it. > I came home from work today to find poop in my bed. I looked at her and > she seemed to know she had done something bad, because she started slinking > away very slowly. I didn’t yell or anything…just picked her up, took her > to the poop, and rubbed her face in it just a bit…none got on her > though, because it was so dried out. > I know a spray water bottle is good for discipline, but does it still work > hours after the fact? > Amanda
Dear Amanda (and group); As a new cat owner you are to be excused for committing the most common error in dealing with cats… which is thinking that cats are small difficult dogs and can be treated accordingly. To answer your first question first; you can not AND SHOULD NOT discipline a cat! You can correct a cats’ behavior and modify it to something more appropriate to living with humans, but cat discipline is an oxymoron, (not unlike military intelligence). Specifically, cats are not pack animals and therefore do not respond to "leader" discipling the way that a dog would do. To eliminate, (no pun intended) the problem you must outthink the cat, (not an easy chore for a human… but do-able under specific circumstances). Your specific problem is with unacceptable, (from a human point of view) housesoiling. The first thing you need to figure out is WHY the cat chose to defecate on your bed. Cats, by nature try to hide their feces except in very specific circumstances. Usually publicly displayed feces is a signal to other animals :"This is my space". The trigger for this could be another cat in the house… a new baby, a new live-in human (male or female) or, (since this is springtime and many of your kittys’ feral cousins are more active now), it could be that your cat saw a strange cat outside the window and felt the need to mark the territory. It is up to you as the species with superior intelligence (snort!) to figure out what the reason was for territory marking and work with changing the trigger for the behavior. The second possibility could be that your cat is trying to tell you that she is not happy with the litter pan. This could also have many causes; 1) she doesn’t like the litter you use; 2) she thinks you need to change/sanitize the box more frequently; 3) she has a physical problem that causes her pain when she deficates and associates the box with the pain (it doesn’t have to make sense to a human… only to a cat). Whatever the reason, it is up to you as the human to figure out the answer and take action. As far as use of water spray bottles, (or other aversive deterrents); used incorrectly, all you will teach the cat is to be afraid of you… not the best way to form a close bond with your cat. As far as "rubbing her nose in it", was that the way that your mom toilet trained you when you made a mistake? I’ll bet not. The point is to "catch" your cat doing "proper" behavior and praise effusively! How do you do that? Set up a situation where you can’t help but "catch" her doing good. Make sure that you sit with her while she eats, and then deposit her in the box. When she "makes" high praise and possibly a kitty treat. Finally, animals have no long-term rententive memory nor do they feel guilt over inappropriate behaviors, since they are behaving as they were designed to… as animals. It is up to us as humans to gently and kindly modify their behaviors so that they can successfully cooexist with us in our environment. I hope this clarifies things a bit. For further information on cat care, take a look at my website located at http://www.cats-by-pat.com … we also have a video out "COMMON SENSE CAT CARE VOLUME #1 – Grooming & Bathing Your Cat" $29.95 + $4.95 s/h. Call 1-773-878-1988 to order (VISA & Master Card Accepted). Regards, Pat Kansoer – Holistci Companion Feline Consultant http://www.cats-by-pat.com
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I’m a new cat owner, and I was wondering how you can discipline a cat for something they did hours before you find out about it. I came home from work today to find poop in my bed. I looked at her and she seemed to know she had done something bad, because she started slinking away very slowly. I didn’t yell or anything…just picked her up, took her to the poop, and rubbed her face in it just a bit…none got on her though, because it was so dried out. I know a spray water bottle is good for discipline, but does it still work hours after the fact? Amanda
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:I know a spray water bottle is good for discipline, but does it still :work hours after the fact? no. it just doesn’t work, not even *minutes* after. it’s not so much that the cat has forgotten or is unable to figure out why he is being punished… it’s just the rules by which they live. punishment, to the cat, is just cruelty. as i understand it, dogs haven’t fully worked out this way of dealing with humans. — rob
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> I came home from work today to find poop in my bed. > Amanda
Be thankful that it was not urine!!! Robyn ;-) — /*/ . =*= . . ^ .
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: I’m a new cat owner, and I was wondering how you can discipline a cat for : something they did hours before you find out about it. Very carefully… : I came home from work today to find poop in my bed. I looked at her and : she seemed to know she had done something bad, because she started slinking : away very slowly. I didn’t yell or anything…just picked her up, took her : to the poop, and rubbed her face in it just a bit…none got on her : though, because it was so dried out. Rubbing her face in it will be counterproductive. She will see you as unpredictable and cruel. If she poops in your bed again, bring her with you as you scoop the poop and place it in the litterbox. She seemed to know it was her poop. (Unless she was slinking away out of fear, because of past punishments? She might also have pooped there for a reason.) If she sees you put the poo in the box, she’ll figure out what you are doing. : I know a spray water bottle is good for discipline, but does it still work : hours after the fact? It is very difficult to make a cat associate its past behavior with any punishment. Even a minute later, they might not associate a water squirt with their behavior, and again, perceive you as cruel and unpredictable. (And they _do_ know who controls the squirt bottle.) I realize this is probably of little help to you, but I know of no "aversion" that you can use on a cat other than those done immediately after inappropriate behavior. But please don’t rub your cat’s face in her own feces. Jen
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> I’m a new cat owner, and I was wondering how you can discipline a cat for > something they did hours before you find out about it. > I came home from work today to find poop in my bed. I looked at her and > she seemed to know she had done something bad, because she started slinking > away very slowly. I didn’t yell or anything…just picked her up, took her > to the poop, and rubbed her face in it just a bit…none got on her > though, because it was so dried out.
Punishment is not a good approach with cats. It’s unlikely to result in the desired modification of behavior, and it *is* likely to result in fear or mistrust. In this case, your best approach would have been to have removed the faeces from the bed in view of your cat, and taken them to the litterbox. Then — the hard part — you need to try and figure out *why* your cat defecated in your bed. Common causes of inappropriate defecation or urination are stress caused by abrupt changes in routine (a new work schedule, feeding at different times), abrupt changes in environment (a new apartment, drastic rearrangement of furniture, new room-mates either feline or human, new carpet, new paint), abrupt changes in diet, fear (do you by any chance have workmen come in while you’re out? or is noisy work being done in the neighborhood?), filth or perceived filth (even if the litterbox is kept reasonably clean, some cats can demand a higher standard), and ill-health (parasitic or microbial infections, or other forms of gastro-intestinal upset, some of which may not produce obvious symptoms). > I know a spray water bottle is good for discipline, but does it still work > hours after the fact?
It won’t work even minutes after the fact, and neither will any other means of punishment. The spray bottle or a loud voice (I just call out "Oy!" or "Hey!" in an angry or aggrieved tone when I catch my cats doing something forbidden) will work *only* while the misbehavior is taking place, and then *only* if the cat understands that it *is* misbehavior. With some things, such as jumping on the dining table, this can be done with sheer persis- tence: cat jumps on table, cat is quietly but firmly removed, repeat ad nauseum until light dawns (actually, I suspect that cats learn this much more quickly than they let on, but will keep testing to see that the rule really does still apply). In other cases, it’s much easier to modify the *environment* in such a way that misbehavior either doesn’t occur, or that what was considered misbehavior is no longer a problem. For in- stance, not leaving unwashed dishes in the sink, or foods on the counter; or putting towels down on the furniture where the cats like to sit, so that the shed fur isn’t a problem. In this case, though, you’re not dealing just with misbehavior. Inappropriate defecation is generally a direct (and smelly) communication that something is very definitely wrong. Stacy Scott
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ROTFLMAO, although my DH probably wouldn’t. hbfb
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > : Hi all! I’m a new cat owner and am not quite sure on how to keep my 5 > : month old kitten off the kitchen counter and table? > I gave up and accepted it years ago. If you don’t want a cat > someplace, make it physically impossible for a cat to reach that > place. Otherwise, your house is his house. Yeah, I know, there are > people out there with perfectly disciplined cats. I don’t want to hear > about it > There was a lovely Roz Chast cartoon in the New
Yorker. It just showd > a table with three condiment bottles on it. They were labeled SALT, > PEPPER, and CAT HAIR. > — > Karen Lofstrom
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > CLIP-ON NOSE RINGS ARE HERE!
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Speaking from a present ongoing experience, the heavy packaging tape works like a charm! We used it to break Mickey of scratching furniture, but have pretty much given up on the kitchen counter thing.
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well some people say to keep the counters free of interesting things…I just keep mine so full they can’t get up there for the junk, lol hbfb > Speaking from a present ongoing experience, the heavy
packaging tape works > like a charm! We used it to break Mickey of
scratching furniture, but have – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> pretty much given up on the kitchen counter thing.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi all! I’m a new cat owner and am not quite sure on how to keep my 5 >month old kitten off the kitchen counter and table? I think he’s just >learned that he can jump that high, and seems to be doing it just to >spite me! I have a water gun that I use when I catch him in the act, >but it doesn’t seem to be doing any good. Thanks for the help! > Clear packaging tape, at least six inches, upside down in the > restricted area (I like Scotch brand, the big roll that you can get a > dispenser for, not the smaller roll that comes on a dispenser because > if you rub it with a finger, stuff comes off of it). Two or more > encounters with the tape leaves a lasting impression. Be ready to > help her get the tape off (I’m sure that job varies depending on the > cat/owner). Please use it responsibly. > LShaping.
Use double sided tape and you don’t have to worry about the tape staying stuck to them. Use, glass, wood, cardboard or whatever on top of the table if you don’t want to put the tape right on the table. — Fur Purr >^..^< Before you buy.
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: Hi all! I’m a new cat owner and am not quite sure on how to keep my 5 : month old kitten off the kitchen counter and table? I gave up and accepted it years ago. If you don’t want a cat someplace, make it physically impossible for a cat to reach that place. Otherwise, your house is his house. Yeah, I know, there are people out there with perfectly disciplined cats. I don’t want to hear about it There was a lovely Roz Chast cartoon in the New Yorker. It just showd a table with three condiment bottles on it. They were labeled SALT, PEPPER, and CAT HAIR. — CLIP-ON NOSE RINGS ARE HERE!
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>Hi all! I’m a new cat owner and am not quite sure on how to keep my 5 >month old kitten off the kitchen counter and table? I think he’s just >learned that he can jump that high, and seems to be doing it just to >spite me! I have a water gun that I use when I catch him in the act, >but it doesn’t seem to be doing any good. Thanks for the help!
Clear packaging tape, at least six inches, upside down in the restricted area (I like Scotch brand, the big roll that you can get a dispenser for, not the smaller roll that comes on a dispenser because if you rub it with a finger, stuff comes off of it). Two or more encounters with the tape leaves a lasting impression. Be ready to help her get the tape off (I’m sure that job varies depending on the cat/owner). Please use it responsibly. LShaping.
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Hi, In our experience, the squirt bottle works as long as you’re home. Even after your cat figures out he’s not supposed to be up on the counter and stays off, he’ll probably check it out once in a while. We try to make our countertops a boring as possible for a cat– nothing to eat, no little things to knock onto the floor, nothing sharp, etc. Cinder is three now. I never see her up there but I find kitty footprints on the counter every three or four months or so. Enjoy your kitten. He’s like a curious toddler who has to try everything. Don’t expect him to be perfect. Anne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi all! I’m a new cat owner and am not quite sure on how to keep my 5 > month old kitten off the kitchen counter and table? I think he’s just > learned that he can jump that high, and seems to be doing it just to > spite me! I have a water gun that I use when I catch him in the act, > but it doesn’t seem to be doing any good. Thanks for the help! > Before you buy.
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I feel your pain…I have a one year old cat that does the same thing. I squirt him, and he jumps off the counter, and goes right back up. If anyone has any suggestions…please help. Thanks. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
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sorry, I meant "him"
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Hi all! I’m a new cat owner and am not quite sure on how to keep my 5 month old kitten off the kitchen counter and table? I think he’s just learned that he can jump that high, and seems to be doing it just to spite me! I have a water gun that I use when I catch him in the act, but it doesn’t seem to be doing any good. Thanks for the help! Before you buy.
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