FUTD/FUS
Question:
My Henry had recurrent cystitis, and firstly the vet treated it with antibiotics, after testing the pH and checking for crystals. The antibiotics worked OK the first 2 times, but after that they didn’t and as my vet was reluctant to keep pumping him full of drugs. So he put him on water tablets (quarter a day of Diuride) for a while, which encouraged drinking, and this flushing of the system seems to have worked. In the past year he has only had one bout, and we have a supply of water tablets in to use if he has bladder problems, on the understanding that if it doesn’t clear itself up very quickly, or he’s not passing any urine at all, he goes straight to see Uncle George (our vet). This has worked for us, and so far so good. Tracey
Response:
Stacey, I totally agree about adding the extra water. I have 8 male cats and I know males are more prone to urinary disease. I’m so paranoid about it that I add water to their canned food so its about the consistency of oatmeal. Call me over protective, but it makes *me* feel better. 
— Tally’s Page Cat Health & Behavior Links, Special Remembrances, Animal Issues & Photos! http://www.tallyville.com
Response:
Also adding water to the food helps inrease the cat’s water intake and keeps the urine diluted and less irritating to the bladder lining. This helped best with Sebastian’s chronic FLUTD and was recommended by his surgeon, who waned to do less invasive a procedure. Stacey >Hi, >We had a cat with chronic urinary tract infections, so I can relate to this. >First off, it can take several weeks of feeding the acidified food to actually see >results. Did your vet take an X-ray to determine if any stones were
already present? If – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->so, they will be as irritating to the lining of the bladder as the crystals that caused the >stones to form, and it could take several weeks before both crystals and stones dissolve >sufficiently to allow the bladder to heal. >Secondly did your vet analyze the crystals to determine that they were in fact struvite and >not oxalate? If the stones are oxalate and you are feeding an acidified diet you may be >exacerbating the problem, not correcting it. >The Hill’s s/d contains a very strong acidifier that is usually prescribed to eliminate >stones that are already present and need to be dissolved away. Tardy was on s/d for about >3 months before the X-rays showed that the stones had either dissolved or passed. You >cannot keep a cat on s/d indefinitely because the high acidification can eventually do >damage. >Once the stones dissolved, he was switched to c/d-s which he stayed on for the remainder of >his years. >If your cat continues to have recurring problems another avenue to
investigate is a sterile – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->abcess within the lining of the bladder wall itself. Occasionally recurring bladder >infections that cannot be resolved might be resolved by scraping the bladder lining and >eliminating any self contained abcesses which might have evolved from the original bladder >infection. >Antibiotics might be necessary for some time. Tardy was on Amoxycillin as a prophylactic >for the remainder of his years in addition to the Hill’s c/d. But then Tardy was also >diabetic and prone to bacterial infections in the urine because of the ups and downs of his >sugar metabolism. Did your vet check the blood sugar to be sure that Diabetes wasn’t a >contributory factor in the recurring bladder infections? >Lastly, if you find the cat rejects the Hill’s c/d there are other options for >acidification that you can pursue, assuming we are dealing with struvite crystals and/or >stones which are forming in highly alkaline urine ph. Gizmo has a problem with cystitis >and it isn’t practical for me to feed c/d as I have 8 other cats with normal urine ph. I >balance Gizzie’s ph by giving him Methio-Form tablets which give him the necessary >acidifiers orally without tampering with his food. That allows him to eat the same diet as >the rest of the cats and still get the acid he needs to balance out his ph. >If you want to understand more about Urinary Tract Disorders I have several links to >articles from other vets which might give you a lot more info. Just click on the link >below and check out the sites linked under Urinary Tract Disorders. They might give you a >lot more insight into this problem. The Cornell School of Veterinary
Medicine website is a – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->particularily good one. Dr. Newman’s and Dr. Mike Richard’s sites also contain great >info. There is also a link to the Ohio School of Veterinary Medicine’s recent study that >suggests any cat with a diagnosed history of bladder infections should be fed canned food >ONLY to ensure adequate water intake. There is also a link to the Hill’s site if you’re >interested in understanding the urinary tract anatomy. I hope the links help: >http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pointe/9352/alphalinks.html >– >Tally’s Page >Cat Health & Behavior Links, Special Remembrances, Animal Issues & Photos! >http://www.tallyville.com
Response:
Hi, We had a cat with chronic urinary tract infections, so I can relate to this. First off, it can take several weeks of feeding the acidified food to actually see results. Did your vet take an X-ray to determine if any stones were already present? If so, they will be as irritating to the lining of the bladder as the crystals that caused the stones to form, and it could take several weeks before both crystals and stones dissolve sufficiently to allow the bladder to heal. Secondly did your vet analyze the crystals to determine that they were in fact struvite and not oxalate? If the stones are oxalate and you are feeding an acidified diet you may be exacerbating the problem, not correcting it. The Hill’s s/d contains a very strong acidifier that is usually prescribed to eliminate stones that are already present and need to be dissolved away. Tardy was on s/d for about 3 months before the X-rays showed that the stones had either dissolved or passed. You cannot keep a cat on s/d indefinitely because the high acidification can eventually do damage. Once the stones dissolved, he was switched to c/d-s which he stayed on for the remainder of his years. If your cat continues to have recurring problems another avenue to investigate is a sterile abcess within the lining of the bladder wall itself. Occasionally recurring bladder infections that cannot be resolved might be resolved by scraping the bladder lining and eliminating any self contained abcesses which might have evolved from the original bladder infection. Antibiotics might be necessary for some time. Tardy was on Amoxycillin as a prophylactic for the remainder of his years in addition to the Hill’s c/d. But then Tardy was also diabetic and prone to bacterial infections in the urine because of the ups and downs of his sugar metabolism. Did your vet check the blood sugar to be sure that Diabetes wasn’t a contributory factor in the recurring bladder infections? Lastly, if you find the cat rejects the Hill’s c/d there are other options for acidification that you can pursue, assuming we are dealing with struvite crystals and/or stones which are forming in highly alkaline urine ph. Gizmo has a problem with cystitis and it isn’t practical for me to feed c/d as I have 8 other cats with normal urine ph. I balance Gizzie’s ph by giving him Methio-Form tablets which give him the necessary acidifiers orally without tampering with his food. That allows him to eat the same diet as the rest of the cats and still get the acid he needs to balance out his ph. If you want to understand more about Urinary Tract Disorders I have several links to articles from other vets which might give you a lot more info. Just click on the link below and check out the sites linked under Urinary Tract Disorders. They might give you a lot more insight into this problem. The Cornell School of Veterinary Medicine website is a particularily good one. Dr. Newman’s and Dr. Mike Richard’s sites also contain great info. There is also a link to the Ohio School of Veterinary Medicine’s recent study that suggests any cat with a diagnosed history of bladder infections should be fed canned food ONLY to ensure adequate water intake. There is also a link to the Hill’s site if you’re interested in understanding the urinary tract anatomy. I hope the links help: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pointe/9352/alphalinks.html — Tally’s Page Cat Health & Behavior Links, Special Remembrances, Animal Issues & Photos! http://www.tallyville.com
Response:
>>They said his urinary PH was too high (somewhere around 8). >They did notice that his urinary PH > had dropped to 6.5, but they said that it had to go down lower. >You’re treading on dangerous ground, here. Be cautious of the delicate >balance between dissolution of one type of crystal and the formation of >another. Struvite and calcium phosphate crystals are most common in neutral >to alkaline urine; ammonium urate, sodium urate, calcium oxalate, cystine, >and xanthine crystals are most common in acid to neutral urine. I’m >assuming we’re dealing with either struvite and/or calcium phosphate >crystals since you’re increasing the acidity of the urine.
correct, they detected struvite crystals, though he did not have an obstruction. Thank you so much for your response and your recommendations. He’s due for another urine test next week, so hopefully we’ll get a better idea of where he stands. You have a wonderful web site as well! Irwin
Response:
>They said his urinary PH was too high (somewhere around 8).
They did notice that his urinary PH > had dropped to 6.5, but they said that it had to go down lower.
You’re treading on dangerous ground, here. Be cautious of the delicate balance between dissolution of one type of crystal and the formation of another. Struvite and calcium phosphate crystals are most common in neutral to alkaline urine; ammonium urate, sodium urate, calcium oxalate, cystine, and xanthine crystals are most common in acid to neutral urine. I’m assuming we’re dealing with either struvite and/or calcium phosphate crystals since you’re increasing the acidity of the urine. To further complicate the problem, there are different types of struvite crystals (i.e., sterile struvite and infection-induced struvite crystals), and crystals that *appear* to be composed of struvite (e.g., a nucleus composed of calcium oxalate and a shell composed of struvite). These are the most difficult to dissolve. This is why proper identification and interpretation of urine crystals is so important – to formulate medical protocols to dissolve them, you must know what they’re actually made of. Microscopic evaluation of the appearance of urine crystals represents only a tentative indicator of their composition, because variable conditions associated with their formation, growth, and dissolution may alter their appearance. Definitive identification of crystal composition depends on optical crystallography, infrared spectrophotometry, thermal analysis, x-ray diffraction, electron microprobe analysis, or a combination of these – and not just a glance under a microscope. Improper identification/analysis of the crystals is the *main* reason for recurrent problems especially when the nucleus differs from the shell in composition. My first suggestion would be a canned food mixed with additional water or broth to flush the bladder and urinary tract. Flush the crystals out before they have a chance to "grow". Infection may be the result of inflammation caused by crystals irratating the bladder and urinary tract. Get rid of the inflammation, and the infection may clear up. Chronic use of antibiotics tends to worsen the condition and is basically useless if you don’t get rid of the cause. Here’s some more information: http://maxshouse.com/inflammatory_bowel_disease.htm http://maxshouse.com/feline_urological_syndrome_fus.htm http://maxshouse.com/feline_urological_syndrome_fus.htm#Cystitis http://maxshouse.com/feline_urological_syndrome_fus.htm#Interstitial http://maxshouse.com/feline_urological_syndrome_fus.htm#Urolithiasis Good luck. Phil. "Cat people are different, to the extent that they generally are not conformists. How could the be, with a cat running their lives?" –Louis Camuti Feline Healthcare: http://maxshouse.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Our five year-old indoor, single male cat has recently been diagnosed > with FUTD. He’s had three two-day bouts so far in which he stops > using the litter box, pees every five minutes, and has blood in his > urine. > After the first bout, our vet put him on an anti-biotic but found no > evidence of infection nor crystals in his urine. There was no change > in his diet (1/2 can of fancy feast morning & night and hills science > diet dry food for snacking) > After his second bout (about 2 weeks after the first), our vet > suggested giving him a special commercial diet dry food for urinary > tract health and they put him on a different anti-biotic. We also > started him on Vetenarian’s Best daily Feline Urinary Health > supplements (a cranberry pill that’s given twice a day, which he > loves). They said his urinary PH was too high (somewhere around 8). > We stil gave him his 1/2 cans of fancy feast but supplemented it with > two different types of UTH dry foods. > After the third bout (about 2 weeks after the second), they finally > detected crystals in his urine and put him on Hills s/d canned and dry > food. They also put him back on the first anti-biotic, but they still > could find no sign of infection. They did notice that his urinary PH > had dropped to 6.5, but they said that it had to go down lower. > At first, he refused to eat the Hill’s food (either dry or canned). > We’ve finally been able to get him to eat some if we mix it with > canned or dry commercial special urinary tract health diet. We’ve > also kept him on the cranberry pills. The vet wants to put him on > Hills C/D after two weeks (assuming the crystals are gone) > We’re deathly afraid of bout # 4 happening in the next week or so. > Can anyone offer any advice to end the nightmare? Our carpets will > thank you. <grin> > Network Consultant, The Burton Group > http://www.tbg.com/ > — > Visit the Information Technology Professional’s Resource Center –
http://www.itprc.com/
Response:
As long as you’re consistant with a stable diet, and monitor him carefully. He should be okay. Just be consistant with what you’re feeding him
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Our five year-old indoor, single male cat has recently been diagnosed > with FUTD. He’s had three two-day bouts so far in which he stops > using the litter box, pees every five minutes, and has blood in his > urine. > After the first bout, our vet put him on an anti-biotic but found no > evidence of infection nor crystals in his urine. There was no change > in his diet (1/2 can of fancy feast morning & night and hills science > diet dry food for snacking) > After his second bout (about 2 weeks after the first), our vet > suggested giving him a special commercial diet dry food for urinary > tract health and they put him on a different anti-biotic. We also > started him on Vetenarian’s Best daily Feline Urinary Health > supplements (a cranberry pill that’s given twice a day, which he > loves). They said his urinary PH was too high (somewhere around 8). > We stil gave him his 1/2 cans of fancy feast but supplemented it with > two different types of UTH dry foods. > After the third bout (about 2 weeks after the second), they finally > detected crystals in his urine and put him on Hills s/d canned and dry > food. They also put him back on the first anti-biotic, but they still > could find no sign of infection. They did notice that his urinary PH > had dropped to 6.5, but they said that it had to go down lower. > At first, he refused to eat the Hill’s food (either dry or canned). > We’ve finally been able to get him to eat some if we mix it with > canned or dry commercial special urinary tract health diet. We’ve > also kept him on the cranberry pills. The vet wants to put him on > Hills C/D after two weeks (assuming the crystals are gone) > We’re deathly afraid of bout # 4 happening in the next week or so. > Can anyone offer any advice to end the nightmare? Our carpets will > thank you. <grin> > Network Consultant, The Burton Group > http://www.tbg.com/ > — > Visit the Information Technology Professional’s Resource Center –
http://www.itprc.com/
Response:
Our five year-old indoor, single male cat has recently been diagnosed with FUTD. He’s had three two-day bouts so far in which he stops using the litter box, pees every five minutes, and has blood in his urine. After the first bout, our vet put him on an anti-biotic but found no evidence of infection nor crystals in his urine. There was no change in his diet (1/2 can of fancy feast morning & night and hills science diet dry food for snacking) After his second bout (about 2 weeks after the first), our vet suggested giving him a special commercial diet dry food for urinary tract health and they put him on a different anti-biotic. We also started him on Vetenarian’s Best daily Feline Urinary Health supplements (a cranberry pill that’s given twice a day, which he loves). They said his urinary PH was too high (somewhere around 8). We stil gave him his 1/2 cans of fancy feast but supplemented it with two different types of UTH dry foods. After the third bout (about 2 weeks after the second), they finally detected crystals in his urine and put him on Hills s/d canned and dry food. They also put him back on the first anti-biotic, but they still could find no sign of infection. They did notice that his urinary PH had dropped to 6.5, but they said that it had to go down lower. At first, he refused to eat the Hill’s food (either dry or canned). We’ve finally been able to get him to eat some if we mix it with canned or dry commercial special urinary tract health diet. We’ve also kept him on the cranberry pills. The vet wants to put him on Hills C/D after two weeks (assuming the crystals are gone) We’re deathly afraid of bout # 4 happening in the next week or so. Can anyone offer any advice to end the nightmare? Our carpets will thank you. <grin> Network Consultant, The Burton Group http://www.tbg.com/ — Visit the Information Technology Professional’s Resource Center – http://www.itprc.com/
Response:
My Henry had recurrent cystitis, and firstly the vet treated it with antibiotics, after testing the pH and checking for crystals. The antibiotics worked OK the first 2 times, but after that they didn’t and as my vet was reluctant to keep pumping him full of drugs. So he put him on water tablets (quarter a day of Diuride) for a while, which encouraged drinking, and this flushing of the system seems to have worked. In the past year he has only had one bout, and we have a supply of water tablets in to use if he has bladder problems, on the understanding that if it doesn’t clear itself up very quickly, or he’s not passing any urine at all, he goes straight to see Uncle George (our vet). This has worked for us, and so far so good. Tracey
Response:
Stacey, I totally agree about adding the extra water. I have 8 male cats and I know males are more prone to urinary disease. I’m so paranoid about it that I add water to their canned food so its about the consistency of oatmeal. Call me over protective, but it makes *me* feel better. — Tally’s Page Cat Health & Behavior Links, Special Remembrances, Animal Issues & Photos! http://www.tallyville.com
Response:
Also adding water to the food helps inrease the cat’s water intake and keeps the urine diluted and less irritating to the bladder lining. This helped best with Sebastian’s chronic FLUTD and was recommended by his surgeon, who waned to do less invasive a procedure. Stacey >Hi, >We had a cat with chronic urinary tract infections, so I can relate to this. >First off, it can take several weeks of feeding the acidified food to actually see >results. Did your vet take an X-ray to determine if any stones were
already present? If – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->so, they will be as irritating to the lining of the bladder as the crystals that caused the >stones to form, and it could take several weeks before both crystals and stones dissolve >sufficiently to allow the bladder to heal. >Secondly did your vet analyze the crystals to determine that they were in fact struvite and >not oxalate? If the stones are oxalate and you are feeding an acidified diet you may be >exacerbating the problem, not correcting it. >The Hill’s s/d contains a very strong acidifier that is usually prescribed to eliminate >stones that are already present and need to be dissolved away. Tardy was on s/d for about >3 months before the X-rays showed that the stones had either dissolved or passed. You >cannot keep a cat on s/d indefinitely because the high acidification can eventually do >damage. >Once the stones dissolved, he was switched to c/d-s which he stayed on for the remainder of >his years. >If your cat continues to have recurring problems another avenue to
investigate is a sterile – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->abcess within the lining of the bladder wall itself. Occasionally recurring bladder >infections that cannot be resolved might be resolved by scraping the bladder lining and >eliminating any self contained abcesses which might have evolved from the original bladder >infection. >Antibiotics might be necessary for some time. Tardy was on Amoxycillin as a prophylactic >for the remainder of his years in addition to the Hill’s c/d. But then Tardy was also >diabetic and prone to bacterial infections in the urine because of the ups and downs of his >sugar metabolism. Did your vet check the blood sugar to be sure that Diabetes wasn’t a >contributory factor in the recurring bladder infections? >Lastly, if you find the cat rejects the Hill’s c/d there are other options for >acidification that you can pursue, assuming we are dealing with struvite crystals and/or >stones which are forming in highly alkaline urine ph. Gizmo has a problem with cystitis >and it isn’t practical for me to feed c/d as I have 8 other cats with normal urine ph. I >balance Gizzie’s ph by giving him Methio-Form tablets which give him the necessary >acidifiers orally without tampering with his food. That allows him to eat the same diet as >the rest of the cats and still get the acid he needs to balance out his ph. >If you want to understand more about Urinary Tract Disorders I have several links to >articles from other vets which might give you a lot more info. Just click on the link >below and check out the sites linked under Urinary Tract Disorders. They might give you a >lot more insight into this problem. The Cornell School of Veterinary
Medicine website is a – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->particularily good one. Dr. Newman’s and Dr. Mike Richard’s sites also contain great >info. There is also a link to the Ohio School of Veterinary Medicine’s recent study that >suggests any cat with a diagnosed history of bladder infections should be fed canned food >ONLY to ensure adequate water intake. There is also a link to the Hill’s site if you’re >interested in understanding the urinary tract anatomy. I hope the links help: >http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pointe/9352/alphalinks.html >– >Tally’s Page >Cat Health & Behavior Links, Special Remembrances, Animal Issues & Photos! >http://www.tallyville.com
Response:
Hi, We had a cat with chronic urinary tract infections, so I can relate to this. First off, it can take several weeks of feeding the acidified food to actually see results. Did your vet take an X-ray to determine if any stones were already present? If so, they will be as irritating to the lining of the bladder as the crystals that caused the stones to form, and it could take several weeks before both crystals and stones dissolve sufficiently to allow the bladder to heal. Secondly did your vet analyze the crystals to determine that they were in fact struvite and not oxalate? If the stones are oxalate and you are feeding an acidified diet you may be exacerbating the problem, not correcting it. The Hill’s s/d contains a very strong acidifier that is usually prescribed to eliminate stones that are already present and need to be dissolved away. Tardy was on s/d for about 3 months before the X-rays showed that the stones had either dissolved or passed. You cannot keep a cat on s/d indefinitely because the high acidification can eventually do damage. Once the stones dissolved, he was switched to c/d-s which he stayed on for the remainder of his years. If your cat continues to have recurring problems another avenue to investigate is a sterile abcess within the lining of the bladder wall itself. Occasionally recurring bladder infections that cannot be resolved might be resolved by scraping the bladder lining and eliminating any self contained abcesses which might have evolved from the original bladder infection. Antibiotics might be necessary for some time. Tardy was on Amoxycillin as a prophylactic for the remainder of his years in addition to the Hill’s c/d. But then Tardy was also diabetic and prone to bacterial infections in the urine because of the ups and downs of his sugar metabolism. Did your vet check the blood sugar to be sure that Diabetes wasn’t a contributory factor in the recurring bladder infections? Lastly, if you find the cat rejects the Hill’s c/d there are other options for acidification that you can pursue, assuming we are dealing with struvite crystals and/or stones which are forming in highly alkaline urine ph. Gizmo has a problem with cystitis and it isn’t practical for me to feed c/d as I have 8 other cats with normal urine ph. I balance Gizzie’s ph by giving him Methio-Form tablets which give him the necessary acidifiers orally without tampering with his food. That allows him to eat the same diet as the rest of the cats and still get the acid he needs to balance out his ph. If you want to understand more about Urinary Tract Disorders I have several links to articles from other vets which might give you a lot more info. Just click on the link below and check out the sites linked under Urinary Tract Disorders. They might give you a lot more insight into this problem. The Cornell School of Veterinary Medicine website is a particularily good one. Dr. Newman’s and Dr. Mike Richard’s sites also contain great info. There is also a link to the Ohio School of Veterinary Medicine’s recent study that suggests any cat with a diagnosed history of bladder infections should be fed canned food ONLY to ensure adequate water intake. There is also a link to the Hill’s site if you’re interested in understanding the urinary tract anatomy. I hope the links help: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pointe/9352/alphalinks.html — Tally’s Page Cat Health & Behavior Links, Special Remembrances, Animal Issues & Photos! http://www.tallyville.com
Response:
>>They said his urinary PH was too high (somewhere around 8). >They did notice that his urinary PH > had dropped to 6.5, but they said that it had to go down lower. >You’re treading on dangerous ground, here. Be cautious of the delicate >balance between dissolution of one type of crystal and the formation of >another. Struvite and calcium phosphate crystals are most common in neutral >to alkaline urine; ammonium urate, sodium urate, calcium oxalate, cystine, >and xanthine crystals are most common in acid to neutral urine. I’m >assuming we’re dealing with either struvite and/or calcium phosphate >crystals since you’re increasing the acidity of the urine.
correct, they detected struvite crystals, though he did not have an obstruction. Thank you so much for your response and your recommendations. He’s due for another urine test next week, so hopefully we’ll get a better idea of where he stands. You have a wonderful web site as well! Irwin
Response:
>They said his urinary PH was too high (somewhere around 8).
They did notice that his urinary PH > had dropped to 6.5, but they said that it had to go down lower.
You’re treading on dangerous ground, here. Be cautious of the delicate balance between dissolution of one type of crystal and the formation of another. Struvite and calcium phosphate crystals are most common in neutral to alkaline urine; ammonium urate, sodium urate, calcium oxalate, cystine, and xanthine crystals are most common in acid to neutral urine. I’m assuming we’re dealing with either struvite and/or calcium phosphate crystals since you’re increasing the acidity of the urine. To further complicate the problem, there are different types of struvite crystals (i.e., sterile struvite and infection-induced struvite crystals), and crystals that *appear* to be composed of struvite (e.g., a nucleus composed of calcium oxalate and a shell composed of struvite). These are the most difficult to dissolve. This is why proper identification and interpretation of urine crystals is so important – to formulate medical protocols to dissolve them, you must know what they’re actually made of. Microscopic evaluation of the appearance of urine crystals represents only a tentative indicator of their composition, because variable conditions associated with their formation, growth, and dissolution may alter their appearance. Definitive identification of crystal composition depends on optical crystallography, infrared spectrophotometry, thermal analysis, x-ray diffraction, electron microprobe analysis, or a combination of these – and not just a glance under a microscope. Improper identification/analysis of the crystals is the *main* reason for recurrent problems especially when the nucleus differs from the shell in composition. My first suggestion would be a canned food mixed with additional water or broth to flush the bladder and urinary tract. Flush the crystals out before they have a chance to "grow". Infection may be the result of inflammation caused by crystals irratating the bladder and urinary tract. Get rid of the inflammation, and the infection may clear up. Chronic use of antibiotics tends to worsen the condition and is basically useless if you don’t get rid of the cause. Here’s some more information: http://maxshouse.com/inflammatory_bowel_disease.htm http://maxshouse.com/feline_urological_syndrome_fus.htm http://maxshouse.com/feline_urological_syndrome_fus.htm#Cystitis http://maxshouse.com/feline_urological_syndrome_fus.htm#Interstitial http://maxshouse.com/feline_urological_syndrome_fus.htm#Urolithiasis Good luck. Phil. "Cat people are different, to the extent that they generally are not conformists. How could the be, with a cat running their lives?" –Louis Camuti Feline Healthcare: http://maxshouse.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Our five year-old indoor, single male cat has recently been diagnosed > with FUTD. He’s had three two-day bouts so far in which he stops > using the litter box, pees every five minutes, and has blood in his > urine. > After the first bout, our vet put him on an anti-biotic but found no > evidence of infection nor crystals in his urine. There was no change > in his diet (1/2 can of fancy feast morning & night and hills science > diet dry food for snacking) > After his second bout (about 2 weeks after the first), our vet > suggested giving him a special commercial diet dry food for urinary > tract health and they put him on a different anti-biotic. We also > started him on Vetenarian’s Best daily Feline Urinary Health > supplements (a cranberry pill that’s given twice a day, which he > loves). They said his urinary PH was too high (somewhere around 8). > We stil gave him his 1/2 cans of fancy feast but supplemented it with > two different types of UTH dry foods. > After the third bout (about 2 weeks after the second), they finally > detected crystals in his urine and put him on Hills s/d canned and dry > food. They also put him back on the first anti-biotic, but they still > could find no sign of infection. They did notice that his urinary PH > had dropped to 6.5, but they said that it had to go down lower. > At first, he refused to eat the Hill’s food (either dry or canned). > We’ve finally been able to get him to eat some if we mix it with > canned or dry commercial special urinary tract health diet. We’ve > also kept him on the cranberry pills. The vet wants to put him on > Hills C/D after two weeks (assuming the crystals are gone) > We’re deathly afraid of bout # 4 happening in the next week or so. > Can anyone offer any advice to end the nightmare? Our carpets will > thank you. <grin> > Network Consultant, The Burton Group > http://www.tbg.com/ > — > Visit the Information Technology Professional’s Resource Center –
http://www.itprc.com/
Response:
As long as you’re consistant with a stable diet, and monitor him carefully. He should be okay. Just be consistant with what you’re feeding him
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Our five year-old indoor, single male cat has recently been diagnosed > with FUTD. He’s had three two-day bouts so far in which he stops > using the litter box, pees every five minutes, and has blood in his > urine. > After the first bout, our vet put him on an anti-biotic but found no > evidence of infection nor crystals in his urine. There was no change > in his diet (1/2 can of fancy feast morning & night and hills science > diet dry food for snacking) > After his second bout (about 2 weeks after the first), our vet > suggested giving him a special commercial diet dry food for urinary > tract health and they put him on a different anti-biotic. We also > started him on Vetenarian’s Best daily Feline Urinary Health > supplements (a cranberry pill that’s given twice a day, which he > loves). They said his urinary PH was too high (somewhere around 8). > We stil gave him his 1/2 cans of fancy feast but supplemented it with > two different types of UTH dry foods. > After the third bout (about 2 weeks after the second), they finally > detected crystals in his urine and put him on Hills s/d canned and dry > food. They also put him back on the first anti-biotic, but they still > could find no sign of infection. They did notice that his urinary PH > had dropped to 6.5, but they said that it had to go down lower. > At first, he refused to eat the Hill’s food (either dry or canned). > We’ve finally been able to get him to eat some if we mix it with > canned or dry commercial special urinary tract health diet. We’ve > also kept him on the cranberry pills. The vet wants to put him on > Hills C/D after two weeks (assuming the crystals are gone) > We’re deathly afraid of bout # 4 happening in the next week or so. > Can anyone offer any advice to end the nightmare? Our carpets will > thank you. <grin> > Network Consultant, The Burton Group > http://www.tbg.com/ > — > Visit the Information Technology Professional’s Resource Center –
http://www.itprc.com/
Response:
Our five year-old indoor, single male cat has recently been diagnosed with FUTD. He’s had three two-day bouts so far in which he stops using the litter box, pees every five minutes, and has blood in his urine. After the first bout, our vet put him on an anti-biotic but found no evidence of infection nor crystals in his urine. There was no change in his diet (1/2 can of fancy feast morning & night and hills science diet dry food for snacking) After his second bout (about 2 weeks after the first), our vet suggested giving him a special commercial diet dry food for urinary tract health and they put him on a different anti-biotic. We also started him on Vetenarian’s Best daily Feline Urinary Health supplements (a cranberry pill that’s given twice a day, which he loves). They said his urinary PH was too high (somewhere around 8). We stil gave him his 1/2 cans of fancy feast but supplemented it with two different types of UTH dry foods. After the third bout (about 2 weeks after the second), they finally detected crystals in his urine and put him on Hills s/d canned and dry food. They also put him back on the first anti-biotic, but they still could find no sign of infection. They did notice that his urinary PH had dropped to 6.5, but they said that it had to go down lower. At first, he refused to eat the Hill’s food (either dry or canned). We’ve finally been able to get him to eat some if we mix it with canned or dry commercial special urinary tract health diet. We’ve also kept him on the cranberry pills. The vet wants to put him on Hills C/D after two weeks (assuming the crystals are gone) We’re deathly afraid of bout # 4 happening in the next week or so. Can anyone offer any advice to end the nightmare? Our carpets will thank you. <grin> Network Consultant, The Burton Group http://www.tbg.com/ — Visit the Information Technology Professional’s Resource Center – http://www.itprc.com/
Response:
My Henry had recurrent cystitis, and firstly the vet treated it with antibiotics, after testing the pH and checking for crystals. The antibiotics worked OK the first 2 times, but after that they didn’t and as my vet was reluctant to keep pumping him full of drugs. So he put him on water tablets (quarter a day of Diuride) for a while, which encouraged drinking, and this flushing of the system seems to have worked. In the past year he has only had one bout, and we have a supply of water tablets in to use if he has bladder problems, on the understanding that if it doesn’t clear itself up very quickly, or he’s not passing any urine at all, he goes straight to see Uncle George (our vet). This has worked for us, and so far so good. Tracey
Response:
Stacey, I totally agree about adding the extra water. I have 8 male cats and I know males are more prone to urinary disease. I’m so paranoid about it that I add water to their canned food so its about the consistency of oatmeal. Call me over protective, but it makes *me* feel better. — Tally’s Page Cat Health & Behavior Links, Special Remembrances, Animal Issues & Photos! http://www.tallyville.com
Response:
Also adding water to the food helps inrease the cat’s water intake and keeps the urine diluted and less irritating to the bladder lining. This helped best with Sebastian’s chronic FLUTD and was recommended by his surgeon, who waned to do less invasive a procedure. Stacey >Hi, >We had a cat with chronic urinary tract infections, so I can relate to this. >First off, it can take several weeks of feeding the acidified food to actually see >results. Did your vet take an X-ray to determine if any stones were
already present? If – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->so, they will be as irritating to the lining of the bladder as the crystals that caused the >stones to form, and it could take several weeks before both crystals and stones dissolve >sufficiently to allow the bladder to heal. >Secondly did your vet analyze the crystals to determine that they were in fact struvite and >not oxalate? If the stones are oxalate and you are feeding an acidified diet you may be >exacerbating the problem, not correcting it. >The Hill’s s/d contains a very strong acidifier that is usually prescribed to eliminate >stones that are already present and need to be dissolved away. Tardy was on s/d for about >3 months before the X-rays showed that the stones had either dissolved or passed. You >cannot keep a cat on s/d indefinitely because the high acidification can eventually do >damage. >Once the stones dissolved, he was switched to c/d-s which he stayed on for the remainder of >his years. >If your cat continues to have recurring problems another avenue to
investigate is a sterile – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->abcess within the lining of the bladder wall itself. Occasionally recurring bladder >infections that cannot be resolved might be resolved by scraping the bladder lining and >eliminating any self contained abcesses which might have evolved from the original bladder >infection. >Antibiotics might be necessary for some time. Tardy was on Amoxycillin as a prophylactic >for the remainder of his years in addition to the Hill’s c/d. But then Tardy was also >diabetic and prone to bacterial infections in the urine because of the ups and downs of his >sugar metabolism. Did your vet check the blood sugar to be sure that Diabetes wasn’t a >contributory factor in the recurring bladder infections? >Lastly, if you find the cat rejects the Hill’s c/d there are other options for >acidification that you can pursue, assuming we are dealing with struvite crystals and/or >stones which are forming in highly alkaline urine ph. Gizmo has a problem with cystitis >and it isn’t practical for me to feed c/d as I have 8 other cats with normal urine ph. I >balance Gizzie’s ph by giving him Methio-Form tablets which give him the necessary >acidifiers orally without tampering with his food. That allows him to eat the same diet as >the rest of the cats and still get the acid he needs to balance out his ph. >If you want to understand more about Urinary Tract Disorders I have several links to >articles from other vets which might give you a lot more info. Just click on the link >below and check out the sites linked under Urinary Tract Disorders. They might give you a >lot more insight into this problem. The Cornell School of Veterinary
Medicine website is a – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->particularily good one. Dr. Newman’s and Dr. Mike Richard’s sites also contain great >info. There is also a link to the Ohio School of Veterinary Medicine’s recent study that >suggests any cat with a diagnosed history of bladder infections should be fed canned food >ONLY to ensure adequate water intake. There is also a link to the Hill’s site if you’re >interested in understanding the urinary tract anatomy. I hope the links help: >http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pointe/9352/alphalinks.html >– >Tally’s Page >Cat Health & Behavior Links, Special Remembrances, Animal Issues & Photos! >http://www.tallyville.com
Response:
Hi, We had a cat with chronic urinary tract infections, so I can relate to this. First off, it can take several weeks of feeding the acidified food to actually see results. Did your vet take an X-ray to determine if any stones were already present? If so, they will be as irritating to the lining of the bladder as the crystals that caused the stones to form, and it could take several weeks before both crystals and stones dissolve sufficiently to allow the bladder to heal. Secondly did your vet analyze the crystals to determine that they were in fact struvite and not oxalate? If the stones are oxalate and you are feeding an acidified diet you may be exacerbating the problem, not correcting it. The Hill’s s/d contains a very strong acidifier that is usually prescribed to eliminate stones that are already present and need to be dissolved away. Tardy was on s/d for about 3 months before the X-rays showed that the stones had either dissolved or passed. You cannot keep a cat on s/d indefinitely because the high acidification can eventually do damage. Once the stones dissolved, he was switched to c/d-s which he stayed on for the remainder of his years. If your cat continues to have recurring problems another avenue to investigate is a sterile abcess within the lining of the bladder wall itself. Occasionally recurring bladder infections that cannot be resolved might be resolved by scraping the bladder lining and eliminating any self contained abcesses which might have evolved from the original bladder infection. Antibiotics might be necessary for some time. Tardy was on Amoxycillin as a prophylactic for the remainder of his years in addition to the Hill’s c/d. But then Tardy was also diabetic and prone to bacterial infections in the urine because of the ups and downs of his sugar metabolism. Did your vet check the blood sugar to be sure that Diabetes wasn’t a contributory factor in the recurring bladder infections? Lastly, if you find the cat rejects the Hill’s c/d there are other options for acidification that you can pursue, assuming we are dealing with struvite crystals and/or stones which are forming in highly alkaline urine ph. Gizmo has a problem with cystitis and it isn’t practical for me to feed c/d as I have 8 other cats with normal urine ph. I balance Gizzie’s ph by giving him Methio-Form tablets which give him the necessary acidifiers orally without tampering with his food. That allows him to eat the same diet as the rest of the cats and still get the acid he needs to balance out his ph. If you want to understand more about Urinary Tract Disorders I have several links to articles from other vets which might give you a lot more info. Just click on the link below and check out the sites linked under Urinary Tract Disorders. They might give you a lot more insight into this problem. The Cornell School of Veterinary Medicine website is a particularily good one. Dr. Newman’s and Dr. Mike Richard’s sites also contain great info. There is also a link to the Ohio School of Veterinary Medicine’s recent study that suggests any cat with a diagnosed history of bladder infections should be fed canned food ONLY to ensure adequate water intake. There is also a link to the Hill’s site if you’re interested in understanding the urinary tract anatomy. I hope the links help: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pointe/9352/alphalinks.html — Tally’s Page Cat Health & Behavior Links, Special Remembrances, Animal Issues & Photos! http://www.tallyville.com
Response:
>>They said his urinary PH was too high (somewhere around 8). >They did notice that his urinary PH > had dropped to 6.5, but they said that it had to go down lower. >You’re treading on dangerous ground, here. Be cautious of the delicate >balance between dissolution of one type of crystal and the formation of >another. Struvite and calcium phosphate crystals are most common in neutral >to alkaline urine; ammonium urate, sodium urate, calcium oxalate, cystine, >and xanthine crystals are most common in acid to neutral urine. I’m >assuming we’re dealing with either struvite and/or calcium phosphate >crystals since you’re increasing the acidity of the urine.
correct, they detected struvite crystals, though he did not have an obstruction. Thank you so much for your response and your recommendations. He’s due for another urine test next week, so hopefully we’ll get a better idea of where he stands. You have a wonderful web site as well! Irwin
Response:
>They said his urinary PH was too high (somewhere around 8).
They did notice that his urinary PH > had dropped to 6.5, but they said that it had to go down lower.
You’re treading on dangerous ground, here. Be cautious of the delicate balance between dissolution of one type of crystal and the formation of another. Struvite and calcium phosphate crystals are most common in neutral to alkaline urine; ammonium urate, sodium urate, calcium oxalate, cystine, and xanthine crystals are most common in acid to neutral urine. I’m assuming we’re dealing with either struvite and/or calcium phosphate crystals since you’re increasing the acidity of the urine. To further complicate the problem, there are different types of struvite crystals (i.e., sterile struvite and infection-induced struvite crystals), and crystals that *appear* to be composed of struvite (e.g., a nucleus composed of calcium oxalate and a shell composed of struvite). These are the most difficult to dissolve. This is why proper identification and interpretation of urine crystals is so important – to formulate medical protocols to dissolve them, you must know what they’re actually made of. Microscopic evaluation of the appearance of urine crystals represents only a tentative indicator of their composition, because variable conditions associated with their formation, growth, and dissolution may alter their appearance. Definitive identification of crystal composition depends on optical crystallography, infrared spectrophotometry, thermal analysis, x-ray diffraction, electron microprobe analysis, or a combination of these – and not just a glance under a microscope. Improper identification/analysis of the crystals is the *main* reason for recurrent problems especially when the nucleus differs from the shell in composition. My first suggestion would be a canned food mixed with additional water or broth to flush the bladder and urinary tract. Flush the crystals out before they have a chance to "grow". Infection may be the result of inflammation caused by crystals irratating the bladder and urinary tract. Get rid of the inflammation, and the infection may clear up. Chronic use of antibiotics tends to worsen the condition and is basically useless if you don’t get rid of the cause. Here’s some more information: http://maxshouse.com/inflammatory_bowel_disease.htm http://maxshouse.com/feline_urological_syndrome_fus.htm http://maxshouse.com/feline_urological_syndrome_fus.htm#Cystitis http://maxshouse.com/feline_urological_syndrome_fus.htm#Interstitial http://maxshouse.com/feline_urological_syndrome_fus.htm#Urolithiasis Good luck. Phil. "Cat people are different, to the extent that they generally are not conformists. How could the be, with a cat running their lives?" –Louis Camuti Feline Healthcare: http://maxshouse.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Our five year-old indoor, single male cat has recently been diagnosed > with FUTD. He’s had three two-day bouts so far in which he stops > using the litter box, pees every five minutes, and has blood in his > urine. > After the first bout, our vet put him on an anti-biotic but found no > evidence of infection nor crystals in his urine. There was no change > in his diet (1/2 can of fancy feast morning & night and hills science > diet dry food for snacking) > After his second bout (about 2 weeks after the first), our vet > suggested giving him a special commercial diet dry food for urinary > tract health and they put him on a different anti-biotic. We also > started him on Vetenarian’s Best daily Feline Urinary Health > supplements (a cranberry pill that’s given twice a day, which he > loves). They said his urinary PH was too high (somewhere around 8). > We stil gave him his 1/2 cans of fancy feast but supplemented it with > two different types of UTH dry foods. > After the third bout (about 2 weeks after the second), they finally > detected crystals in his urine and put him on Hills s/d canned and dry > food. They also put him back on the first anti-biotic, but they still > could find no sign of infection. They did notice that his urinary PH > had dropped to 6.5, but they said that it had to go down lower. > At first, he refused to eat the Hill’s food (either dry or canned). > We’ve finally been able to get him to eat some if we mix it with > canned or dry commercial special urinary tract health diet. We’ve > also kept him on the cranberry pills. The vet wants to put him on > Hills C/D after two weeks (assuming the crystals are gone) > We’re deathly afraid of bout # 4 happening in the next week or so. > Can anyone offer any advice to end the nightmare? Our carpets will > thank you. <grin> > Network Consultant, The Burton Group > http://www.tbg.com/ > — > Visit the Information Technology Professional’s Resource Center –
http://www.itprc.com/
Response:
As long as you’re consistant with a stable diet, and monitor him carefully. He should be okay. Just be consistant with what you’re feeding him
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Our five year-old indoor, single male cat has recently been diagnosed > with FUTD. He’s had three two-day bouts so far in which he stops > using the litter box, pees every five minutes, and has blood in his > urine. > After the first bout, our vet put him on an anti-biotic but found no > evidence of infection nor crystals in his urine. There was no change > in his diet (1/2 can of fancy feast morning & night and hills science > diet dry food for snacking) > After his second bout (about 2 weeks after the first), our vet > suggested giving him a special commercial diet dry food for urinary > tract health and they put him on a different anti-biotic. We also > started him on Vetenarian’s Best daily Feline Urinary Health > supplements (a cranberry pill that’s given twice a day, which he > loves). They said his urinary PH was too high (somewhere around 8). > We stil gave him his 1/2 cans of fancy feast but supplemented it with > two different types of UTH dry foods. > After the third bout (about 2 weeks after the second), they finally > detected crystals in his urine and put him on Hills s/d canned and dry > food. They also put him back on the first anti-biotic, but they still > could find no sign of infection. They did notice that his urinary PH > had dropped to 6.5, but they said that it had to go down lower. > At first, he refused to eat the Hill’s food (either dry or canned). > We’ve finally been able to get him to eat some if we mix it with > canned or dry commercial special urinary tract health diet. We’ve > also kept him on the cranberry pills. The vet wants to put him on > Hills C/D after two weeks (assuming the crystals are gone) > We’re deathly afraid of bout # 4 happening in the next week or so. > Can anyone offer any advice to end the nightmare? Our carpets will > thank you. <grin> > Network Consultant, The Burton Group > http://www.tbg.com/ > — > Visit the Information Technology Professional’s Resource Center –
http://www.itprc.com/
Response:
Our five year-old indoor, single male cat has recently been diagnosed with FUTD. He’s had three two-day bouts so far in which he stops using the litter box, pees every five minutes, and has blood in his urine. After the first bout, our vet put him on an anti-biotic but found no evidence of infection nor crystals in his urine. There was no change in his diet (1/2 can of fancy feast morning & night and hills science diet dry food for snacking) After his second bout (about 2 weeks after the first), our vet suggested giving him a special commercial diet dry food for urinary tract health and they put him on a different anti-biotic. We also started him on Vetenarian’s Best daily Feline Urinary Health supplements (a cranberry pill that’s given twice a day, which he loves). They said his urinary PH was too high (somewhere around 8). We stil gave him his 1/2 cans of fancy feast but supplemented it with two different types of UTH dry foods. After the third bout (about 2 weeks after the second), they finally detected crystals in his urine and put him on Hills s/d canned and dry food. They also put him back on the first anti-biotic, but they still could find no sign of infection. They did notice that his urinary PH had dropped to 6.5, but they said that it had to go down lower. At first, he refused to eat the Hill’s food (either dry or canned). We’ve finally been able to get him to eat some if we mix it with canned or dry commercial special urinary tract health diet. We’ve also kept him on the cranberry pills. The vet wants to put him on Hills C/D after two weeks (assuming the crystals are gone) We’re deathly afraid of bout # 4 happening in the next week or so. Can anyone offer any advice to end the nightmare? Our carpets will thank you. <grin> Network Consultant, The Burton Group http://www.tbg.com/ — Visit the Information Technology Professional’s Resource Center – http://www.itprc.com/
Response:
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